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nghtraidr86  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/01/2011 5:57 PM EST

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Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
Hey guys,

I wanted to share an email I received from somebody, they didn't leave a name or number but I do have an email address if y'all are interested in responding to them after you read it.

Here is what they sent me:

"40-60% savings on energy bills huh? A/C and Heating only account for 40-60% of energy bills! What are you going to do, insulate then unplug the HVAC? What license do you need exactly for that, licensed and proven stupidity. Learn something about BTU gains and loss, get a HERS, HVAC, BPI, or LEED license so that you can do the easy math and find out you offer dollar for dollar the dumbest f***ing insulation on the planet. A fellow builder told us all the details when they tried foam,(we werent that stupid, that is why we still build and he doesnt) it doesnt insulate to new codes, so you have to have the home rated so that the higher efficiency HVAC "balanced" the total btu load from the INFERIOR insulation choice. When calculating the manual J, they found that the foam home actually used more energy than the ones he had been building with less money(r-15 walls, r-49ceiling). We tested how much money it would take to seal a new home tighter than foam, @350$ labor and material will get you a home tighter than foam, but as good builders tight homes are retarded. Do you want your families health to hinge around a motorized source of fresh air? When something as simple as a dirty filter, power outage, zone controller, or many other things fail, foam homes(tight homes) become hazardous to live in..............best part, all that risk and cost for an INFERIOR R-value, and a greater price.

Claimed advantages of foam: Air seal

Not an advantage, our homes breathe perfectly with no fan motors to fail. There is no energy gain from a single source of fresh air, or multiple small sources, homes still require .35ach.

Greater R-value: Really only closed cell, and it's only R per inch. Loose fills go to R-60 so technically, in reality, foams provide lesser r-values.

Semi Conditioned attic: Thats what I want to do on a 100 degree day, pay money to cool my attic to 85, fckin genious!

Maybe instead of going to a bunch of propaganda meetings provided by the manufacturers of foam, you should educate yourself on home energy!

That way when you try to promise some bull****** savings, or sell an inferior product at a higher cost, you will at least know your being a liar and crook."



So what do you think. Some of his comments about a builder using foam and it performing worse than a fiberglass house I can understand. I can't tell you how many unprofessional and sloppy jobs with foam insulation I have seen lately. I have seen jobs where I can see the roof deck in several places, where they didn't bother to check or do it right. Foam insulation jobs that they are installing maybe 4" of open cell foam on the roof deck. I am in New Mexico and it has been 110+ plus outside all week, so I am not surprised that some foam "insulated" house have performed worse than a fiberglass insulated house.

I could go on about his arguments against spray foam. But I would rather here from you guys. So have at it, let me know what I should say back to this guy.


SW FOAM

foamdude

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/01/2011 8:43 PM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
..about your email..
cant send a beer to your sender,,via email
or better yet,,a 12 pack,,wish i could,,he could use a few more,,
you aint gonna change his point of view,,
and you probably dont want to,,lol..
about the crappy installations..
ya want cheap,,,ya got cheap,,,

carvelli  

Senior Administrator
Posted: 7/02/2011 5:32 AM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
I'd ask him to tell you who he/she is? Seems like some heavy positioning to do in silence or anonymity. Quite frankly, its actually good to hear opinions like this. It only makes us stronger in our ability to deal with them, and/or improve our product/service if really applicable.

However, I am seeing a lot of very similar "anti-spf" campaigning out there in internet lala land lately and it is all very similar in nature.
Makes you wonder of some big folks are doing some social lobbying??

Coincidentally we also got a letter from a fiberglass trade association recently pointing out very similar issues.

It might be wise to qualify the person and issues are real, then handle them accordingly.

guiness

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/02/2011 10:32 AM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
I'd be willing to bet that he keeps loosing jobs to you, and he's ticked off.

Keep up the good work!

nghtraidr86  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/02/2011 10:38 AM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
Guiness, I have no idea who this guy is, maybe he is a competitor, or something. Would make sense I guess. To each his own I guess, guess I'll wait for the next email..

SW Foam

maurice-r

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/02/2011 9:50 PM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
I think this forum is one of the best advertising outlets you have! It doesn't take much Googling to find the truth you guys teach.

A few months ago, I was reading a plumbing/hvac trade magazine, Dan Holohan wrote in his column that he found written history that In early 1900's, the experts advised building a "loose" house that fresh air can come in.

Hey, if the power goes out, MY new windows can still be OPENED! :-)

airpro  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/03/2011 11:59 AM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
yes but they heated with wood or coal

and every room in the house had a door to the outside so you could get out in a fire

Airpro

foamdude

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/04/2011 5:50 AM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
,,,consider,,,this fella will never be,,and should never be considered,,your competition,,
if this is what you are selling to or marketing against,,your foam insulation business will fail..theirs is an old insulation technology with lots of air movement and ventilation and breathing and all that jazz,,,and it is inexpensive as well,,cause like most things that are inexpensive,,it doesnt work all that well,,
where they are building,,,and whom they are building for,,you really aint got time for,,dont waste your lips,,,they write emails like the one you got,,and believe it too...
but nowhere are the facts,,,(we talk about that elsewhere dont we,,,)anything to quantify,,,even if it is anecdotal,,,(for jimster)
like lets see,,,,all filterglass,,caulked,,sealed,,the works custom 5 star plus e star,,,65 heers index,,,
our foam home,,same footprint,,,advance frame,,same bling,,40 heers index,,,
everytime,,,,numbers,,,
lets see,,send em to bs.com,,,to am lung assoc dot com,,,the building science community is full of great resouses championing the benifits of a tight building enveope and controling the air quaility for the benifit of the occupants,,google,,derr
build tight ventilate right,,,

happy 4th
dude

bayouboy  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/04/2011 11:21 AM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
Sore loser

My neighbors home is 6000 sq. ft with 6" of open cell in the rafters and 3 1/2" of open cell in the walls. He runs two each 3 ton units for the entire house and his electrical bill ran $210.00 in June

My house is next door and 2800 sq. ft. Fiberglass Batt Insulation with cellulose filled in the attic. It takes two 3 tons to ac the house and in summertime they run constantly. My bill was $397.00 for June.

There is a difference, don't fool yourself "Sore Loser". There are to many anecedotal references to point to that are not done by a 3rd party working for a fiberglass or spray foam manufacturer.

I know competition is tough out there! Adapt or move on. I am sure if you can't do insulation anymore because you are losing your market share that you can do framing, flooring, etc....

Crying foul is not going to get your market share back again. Foam will only get stronger!

Quentin  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/06/2011 12:28 PM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
LOL, yeah, I love those guys since they do it and then refuse to provide who they are. In other words they are pissed at losing bids. No different than the letter I got a couple of years ago and have sitting right here from National Insulation Manufacture's Association. They threatened me for having the Oak Ridge Labs testing results on fiberglass on my site. My reply in a latter to them was simple, sue me! Never a word since then. Heck, I may just scan it in and put it up where you can all read it and get a good laugh!

bldfw

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/14/2011 5:42 PM EST

Related Link:
My Texas Round House

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
WOW!

I'm neither a builder or a spray foamer but I have experienced drafty homes where it's hard to get warm. I've done my homework and it doesn't take much to learn the truth. I haven't lived in a foamed house (yet) but sure look forward to the difference it will make as I sit snug as a bug (and not a flea) in my encapsulated home.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

terry  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/14/2011 9:39 PM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
I know this guy. When he said fellow builder then that gave him away. He's the builder that bids on a house which includes insulation. He always doubles or triples the actual cost to get fibertrash installed. Then the homeowner researches foam and hell decides foam ain't that much more and a whole lot better. Homeowner then tells the builder he wants foam and he will pay the difference in cost and then the builder has to give up his profit. Now he has a(BOGUS)argument to use if it happens again, put together by his fibercelljunk dealer.
I think all the foamers know this guy.

foamdude

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/14/2011 10:33 PM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
poetic,,

Mason  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 7/15/2011 1:38 PM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
I haven't gotten my new house in Savannah foamed yet, but my wife is screaming to get it done. My fiberglass insulated house (2800 sq ft with 3ea 2 ton AC units) gave us a $450 electric bill in June.

I know who I want to do the work but I haven't got a quote yet. They have looked at it.

I will let you know how it affects it. I hope to completely eliminate one of the AC units.

Rowdy  

Q&A Forums Registered User
Posted: 12/08/2011 11:27 PM EST

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RE: Does every fiberglass installer feel this way??
When I get a chance to have this argument, I tell them this - next time the space shuttle is launched, watch it and let me know if they have fiberglass batts stapled to it...

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